In this episode of the Be Fierce and Tri Podcast, Jill Bartholomew and Troy Theodosiou discuss the essential elements of preparing for endurance races, including setting realistic goals, the importance of structured training plans, and the mental preparation required for success. They emphasize the significance of saddle time, race day logistics, and the need for athletes to acclimatize before competing. The conversation also touches on future plans for community building within the triathlon and cycling space. In this conversation, Jill Bartholomew and Troy Theodosiou delve into various aspects of endurance sports, focusing on bike maintenance, the significance of recovery, emotional challenges post-race, the importance of celebrating achievements, and the invaluable role of community support in training and racing. They share personal experiences and insights, emphasizing the need for accountability and the benefits of training with others.
Takeaways
The race is a culmination of all the preparation done beforehand.
Setting a realistic timeline is crucial for effective training.
Every workout should have a specific goal to maximize effectiveness.
Saddle time is essential for endurance athletes to prepare for races.
Mental preparation can be as important as physical training.
Controlling stress and anxiety on race day can lead to better performance.
Proper bike maintenance is critical before any race.
Acclimatization to race conditions can significantly impact performance.
Training smart and structured is key to achieving race goals.
Community support and social spaces can enhance the training experience. Derailleur hangers are crucial for bike maintenance.
Regular equipment checks can prevent race-day issues.
Recovery is as important as training for performance.
Post-race blues are common and should be acknowledged.
Celebrating small wins can boost morale and motivation.
Community support enhances training and emotional resilience.
Accountability in training can improve performance.
Investing in recovery tools is essential for athletes.
Training with others fosters motivation and accountability.
Emotional support is vital during challenging times.
Jill Bartholomew (00:01)
Hi, and welcome back to another episode of the Be Fierce and Tri Podcast I'm Jill Bartholomew and I'm here today with recurring guest Troy Theodosio. It's been a while Troy since you've been on, so thank you for making time. And do want to tell us for a minute what you've been up to since we last heard from you?
Troy Theodosiou (00:23)
man, yeah, it's great to be here and I've missed you and it's really good to see your face and I've been doing a little bit of racing myself, being able to get back into it, which has been great. And yeah, just really excited for this episode to discuss some pretty relevant stuff.
Jill Bartholomew (00:27)
I'll
Yeah. And, you know, last week we talked about, like Placid and yeah, I met with Thomas, from, Merge Multisport. You know, we've done a few episodes now together and kind of did a race recap. so kind of off of that, I had a couple of topics today. So I think today's agenda is going to look like. So first we talk a lot about races, but let's talk about what goes into preparing for the race. Cause like,
The race really is the celebration of all the preparation that you did for it, right? And then, let's skip through the race. We talked enough about that. And we're gonna talk about, how do you recover from race, especially like a full Ironman or a marathon, right? Which have very remarkably similar kind of effects on the body at race pace. And then,
You know, let's finish off with some training tips and specifically let's talk about training with others. You know, we've talked a lot about training. I have a newsletter on LinkedIn that talks about, you know, training for executives and like how to make more time in your life. But we haven't talked about how to be more effective in your training. So just getting started, like preparing for an endurance race, whether it's a marathon and...
a full Ironman or depending on where you're starting from, it could even be your first 5k. Right. So, obviously it starts with training, right.
Troy Theodosiou (01:55)
100%.
Yeah, I think Jill, so importantly, like right off the bat, the first thing that we have to do is set like a realistic timeline. I think that's the fundamental starting point is setting a realistic timeline in terms of if you want to do it properly and you want to go about it the right way, make sure that you've got that side of the business taken care of.
Jill Bartholomew (02:10)
Mm-hmm.
you're absolutely spot on with that. as a coach and a friend and a frequent stalker of Facebook pages, I'm sorry, I'm in a lot of Facebook race groups. You know, I've been doing this for a long time and you know, we've talked about it before. I'm, I I'm like as deep or deeper in the run Disney universe as I am in like the triathlon and Ironman universe. And they're both absolutely fascinating.
Troy Theodosiou (02:46)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (02:48)
And there's like a lot of stark similarities between the two and the people who are listening are laughing. Especially if you're an Iron Man, you're like, I've run Disney 26.2 miles at Disney, still 26.2 miles. They're a little bit more magical, but they're still 26.2 whole miles. But in both, we see people who are like not really, you know.
avid athletes. They maybe are casual, maybe weekend warriors. A lot of times don't have a training plan. They've been following, maybe they go out on some group runs. Maybe they go out on their own when they get a chance to, but nothing really directed. And then you see it all the time, especially with the fulls because it's obviously like a
bucket list item for a lot of people, right? It's like they wake up and suddenly like, I'm gonna do a full and I'm gonna do that one. And then they find out it's like 60 days from now. I saw a post somewhere recently of someone who wanted to do a full, actually I think it might've been Lake Placid. It was Lake Placid. And she decided.
as it was, was a, she, which I think is more unusual, had decided like literally 60 days before the race that she was going to do that race trained like heck for 60 days. And you and I both know there's not a ton of fitness you're going to develop in 60 days. You get some, you get some, but you're not going to like make really material changes in just 60 days.
Troy Theodosiou (04:14)
No. Chill.
there's very little time to do any testing. There's very little time to simulate any of the necessities.
Jill Bartholomew (04:28)
Right. And
not to mention you're going to show up to the race, like on tired legs, on a tired body, because, you know, in 60 days, you know, you're not going to take 25 % of that just to go taper. Right. so anyways, you know, she did all right in the swim DNF on the bike. Right. And, you know, I read her story and it was like really inspiring, but it also was like,
Honey, I wish you had decided you're going to do like class next year, which would give you 14 months to train instead of just two. You probably would have crossed the finish line with 14 months of training. So I think like to your point, having realistic goals, you're training for your first 5K or your first Ironman or your next Ironman, it all depends on like where your fitness is.
Troy Theodosiou (05:20)
100 % that is exactly what I was going to say is where am I at now and where do I need to be? Where do I need to be? And that's very dependent on what the goal is and what it is you're setting out to achieve.
Jill Bartholomew (05:29)
Mm-hmm.
And you said it right there. It's like, what's your goal? When I get a new athlete, one of the first questions I ask them is I'm like, because a lot of times it's like, I want to do my first 70.3, my first Olympic, my first full. And the question that I ask is like, what's your goal? Is your goal to podium, or is it to finish, or is it somewhere in between? And most people would be like, well, I'm not going to podium.
I'd like to finish and not be the last one across the finish line. Right. But, but yeah, I mean, those are two very different training plans.
Troy Theodosiou (06:08)
And I think what's super, super interesting and something that you'll be hyper aware of just with regards to executives, yourself being one of them, the amount of time required that you need to put into the preparation is something that I think is an afterthought. And for those who can't necessarily afford a coach, the best advice I could give you is to potentially reverse engineer.
from race day, what that's gonna look like in terms of what is required to prepare you and get you to race day.
Jill Bartholomew (06:44)
So let's kind of dive into that a little bit. You're right. I think I saw a statistic not that long ago that somewhere between like 8 and 11 % of athletes in these types of endurance and ultra endurance sports have coaches. Unsurprisingly, the top 8 % all have coaches. So there is definitely a correlation there. But a lot of people, especially the first time around,
Don't hire a coach, because let's face it, coaches, especially good coaches, are not cheap. They can run between a couple hundred dollars a month to upwards of 1,000, depending on who they are, what they're doing, what sports you're involved with, blah, So I've seen people look to chat GPT. These generative AI tools are the latest thing. But it makes sense. You're laughing a little bit.
Troy Theodosiou (07:30)
I am, because I'm just thinking about Chet GBT and how many finish lines Chet GBT has crossed from a credential standpoint.
Jill Bartholomew (07:30)
⁓
Right, right. Well,
and at this point, the reality is that Chad GPT has not crossed any finish lines, nor will it ever, hopefully. But people using Chad GPT have, and they will continue to. But I've seen, if you're curious, go to Chad GPT, tell it what race you're going to race for, and
Troy Theodosiou (07:44)
You
Jill Bartholomew (08:00)
you know, what your goal is and see what it comes out with. It needs a little work. It's not there. It'll be, it probably won't be too bad a couple of years from now. It's gonna get harder as coaches to compete against. But right now, like I've seen some of what it generates and it's like, you could do that. But what it lacks is the dynamic aspect to it, right? Like, you know,
It's the same thing, right? You can sign up for, you know, go to a lot of people go to training peaks and, you know, download, you know, some famous coaches, workouts, you know, for, whatever race. Right. Or, but I mean, they're cost effective, you know, or go to like Tridot and sign up for, you know, one of their plans, which, you know, is, is a little more dynamic. but you, you still miss that like.
Troy Theodosiou (08:35)
cutter.
Jill Bartholomew (08:51)
you know, nutrition advice and pacing advice and, you know, you know, the, the help getting in the head space and finding the time is a big one. Like a lot, a lot of athletes, especially when they're first start training struggle with how to find the time. like, I don't know how much time you train a week. know you've, you're still kind of new into, into a new job, but like my, I'm two weeks off of Lake Placid, right?
My training plan this week was 17 hours and next week is 20. Right. I like that. That's now that's going into Kona. So, and we're trying to not be terrible at Kona. So that, that's not normal, but I mean, for a full IM, I mean, you got to kind of figure out how to fit in like probably on average 12.
Troy Theodosiou (09:40)
And Jill, your goals are obviously very specific with regards to what it is you're looking to achieve, right? Like those goals are not the norm. And I think it's important for people to understand like what you're putting in. There's this very specific outcome that you desire. Now for somebody who's looking to just partake and just complete, that would obviously look very different to your type of training and your expenditure.
Jill Bartholomew (09:46)
Okay.
Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (10:05)
but by the same token, it still requires you to plan accordingly. And it's not the type of event that you can afford to, it's not like, I just missed going to the gym for half an hour. Unfortunately, you're not in a position to skip workouts because you will pay the price come race day.
Jill Bartholomew (10:10)
It does.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And you know, the further out you are kind of the less effect a single workout is going to have. you know, kind of, I think the general advice right now is like, if you miss a workout, don't worry about it. But if you miss 10, we have, we have to figure out why you're missing the workouts, right? Yeah. It's like the other day, two days ago, I got in the pool for an hour and 15 minutes. It was like 4,000.
Troy Theodosiou (10:39)
Mm-hmm.
Jill Bartholomew (10:54)
you know, yard swim, got about 600 yards in and the whistle blows. Sky opened up, lightning. We live in Pennsylvania. If there's thunder, they pull people out for basically an hour. So, you know, that swim didn't happen. Had zero benefit for me. But, you know, there's three other swims this week. So that one on its own isn't going to make a big difference.
Troy Theodosiou (11:00)
Wait a...
And that's
actually something that I stress is the importance of discipline over motivation. Because in the long run, that's what really separates you from being successful and achieving those goals and you're not.
Jill Bartholomew (11:24)
Hmm?
Yeah. And being realistic about your goal. I have two athletes I'm thinking of in particular. Actually, all of them, but two specific ones. One did his first 70.3 recently at Muscleman. He crushed it. Absolutely crushed it. But we only had, I think, 90 days to work together on this.
Troy Theodosiou (11:51)
No, wow.
Jill Bartholomew (11:51)
He had another coach and like, he recognized he wasn't making the progress he needed to achieve his goal. Cause his goal was to not just finish, but in his words, he wanted to finish strong in the middle of the pack. I'm like, that's, that's a reasonable goal, right? It's kind of nonspecific on the time part.
But as we got into it, we started looking at what people did last year and the last three years and started saying, OK, well, we can probably get you across in this range. And then he credited afterwards, he's like, if he hadn't made that change, he might not have crossed the finish line. Because the difference in a structured plan that was tailored for him and for the course that he was planning to do.
was really important to his success and getting the feedback. He wasn't getting the feedback before. And some of it's right down to nutrition advice. It's like, hey, man, it's going to be hot out there. Drink some water. Maybe throw in some electrolytes. I I think we're a little bit more specific than that. But yeah. Another one, it wasn't a Chad GPT. He took a spreadsheet.
Troy Theodosiou (12:43)
100%.
Jill Bartholomew (13:06)
and kind of said, well, I'm to do a long ride on this day. And I'm like, OK, that's a good start. But for each workout, you need to have a goal. It's like the goal of a long ride is not the long ride itself. Like nobody but you and your bicycle cares that you did 100 miles. Right? Maybe your family does because you didn't get to see them all day. But like what's the goal? Is the goal to get yourself?
know, seat time. Is it to do a race simulation at a specific zone? Is it, you know, to get you, you know, practicing your nutrition strategy? Is it something else? It's like always have a goal and know what the goal is of that workout.
Troy Theodosiou (13:51)
And you're not wrong because the goal could be multifaceted. And Jill, you specifically mentioned like saddle time in the saddle, saddle time. I think that has to be the number one thing that people neglect the most. You mentioned this individual with 60 days decided to do Ironman Lake Placid. You, of all people know what that bike course requires of and from you. Now I can tell you if saddle time was not something that was.
Jill Bartholomew (13:59)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Troy Theodosiou (14:17)
was properly implemented, you are likely to DNF.
Jill Bartholomew (14:21)
Yeah, yeah. mean, if the course is flat, it's, I mean, you still need the saddle time. Like, maybe you can get away with without doing the whole thing. It's like, you know, marathons, a lot of marathon plans never have you actually running a full marathon until the day of the event. And I think that's generally okay for marathons. You missed that maybe last 5K of load on your legs.
But what's the worst case in a marathon? Maybe you miss a time goal, or maybe you end up slowing down that last 5k. On a bike, the worst case is you die. So getting that seat time in is, I think, really important.
and in like a race like Lake Placid or any equally hilly race, right? There's so many that come to mind that are on the circuits that are very hilly. know, so much can go wrong. And knowing how to deal with it when you're there in the moment, tired, on tired legs and hot and sweaty and uncomfortable.
like is really, really an important skill to develop, especially when you're starting to do these endurance things.
Troy Theodosiou (15:39)
Yeah.
And it can be incredibly uncomfortable. Let's call a spade a spade with regards to being on a saddle for several hours. Not only are you going to struggle to walk, but if you haven't done that, there's chaff which can be excruciating.
Jill Bartholomew (15:50)
you
Let's talk about chafing. my god.
Troy Theodosiou (15:56)
I mean,
if you really want to get granular, mean, again, there's a right way to do things in a wrong way. And one thing that I want to highlight here, because the first thing that comes to mind is you'll more often than not, you'll read a story or you'll see something on social media about an individual who brags about the fact that they only train for one hour a day and they did X or they, know, there's
Jill Bartholomew (16:22)
Yes.
Troy Theodosiou (16:24)
We're seeing a lot more of that nowadays. you're not a hero by being able to do that. And the part that...
Jill Bartholomew (16:29)
Well, social
media is one-sided, right? It's only... Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (16:33)
my gosh. It's an exception to the norm. And here's the problem with
that is that you never quite understand the backstory with regards to, you the person was an ex like collegiate athletes. Like there's always a backstory. So it's not like Joe Schmo got off the couch and decided to do an Ironman the next day and finished. Wow. Unbelievable.
Jill Bartholomew (16:46)
Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, they forgot to
it. Right. They forgot to tell you that they recently retired from being a Navy SEAL. Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (17:00)
or an ex-Olympic athlete. I mean, for goodness sake,
there's a number of these where social media paints this picture. And I'm like, that is so far from the truth. It's no different to the person who's all jacked and says, yeah, I take whey protein. And it's like, wow, those muscles grew overnight on your whey protein? That's a, yeah, you must be a genetic anomaly.
Jill Bartholomew (17:09)
Yeah, I mean.
Yeah.
Yeah, like, I mean, let's be real, right? Is it possible that you could decide I'm going to do whatever endurance activity you choose, whether it's a cycling event, tri you know, run, whatever. Swim, maybe push to the side because that I think is different, but like, yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (17:39)
Very risky, yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (17:42)
But I mean, there is some number, some percentage of people who probably could just do it and pull it off. But there's risks, right? I ran the Brooklyn half marathon a couple of years ago. And it's a nice race. It starts in Prospect Park in Brooklyn, and then it runs out to Coney Island.
And it finishes in the stadium out there. Like, okay, that's nice. And then you walk across the finish line and you get Nathan's hot dog. I mean, it's right on the boardwalk. It's like another 10 feet to Nathan's and I may or may not have, have done that. so anyways, that one's memorable to me because someone died at the finish line and he started near me and he finished near me.
The reason why he died was not because he couldn't do it, because he obviously did. He crossed the finish line. And then he like literally took two steps and fell over and his heart stopped and he died. He was young. He was younger than me. And the reason he died was it was a very hot day. It was in New York. You know, everyone thinks the Northeast is cool.
Yeah, we get a lot of heat too. And with that heat usually comes a ton of humidity. With both of those, you know, come hydration needs, right? Like if your body is sweating, you need to replace it. Now you don't need to replace it one-to-one. That's not the recommended approach, but you need to put something in you. And he didn't. He ran past every aid station, didn't take any hydration, didn't take any nutrition.
And he basically died of dehydration because once his heart rate fell, it tanked and he never recovered. So like, you know, is that a training issue? Maybe because he didn't know that he needed to do that. I don't know anything else about him, but you know, that's, you know, our goal is to prevent that from happening. Now swimming.
I don't know. Swimming is a whole different activity. it's like, I think for most people it's, swimming is, not drowning. Yeah. And like, hopefully making forward momentum while actively not drowning.
Troy Theodosiou (19:53)
Yeah, for most.
Yeah, and just the sheer...
the that there are so many people around them, they're not in an isolated lane, you're in an open body of water with hundreds of different athletes swimming on top of you. mean, you yourself have taken a few, ⁓ taken some, you know, a whack here and there and a kick here and there. And if you're anxious and not a confident swimmer to begin with, that can really derail your race.
Jill Bartholomew (20:08)
Yeah.
man.
it.
It can, and it will. I mean, you can't do an open water swim like that in a race where you have a lot of people around you and not eventually get a hand on you, an elbow in your side, an elbow in your face.
uh, pushed around, swum over under around and like, most of the time it's not intentional. Right. And I do, there have been a couple of times where I'm like, that person did that on purpose. Right. Uh, but normally it's like, you know, everyone's just doing their own thing and trying to get to the finish line or out of the water.
Troy Theodosiou (21:03)
Yeah, you'd like to think so.
Jill Bartholomew (21:19)
as quickly as possible. But yeah, I mean, I've come out of the water with, with black eyes. I've thought that my watch was gonna drown a few times. actually at Lake Placid, the twice I had my wrist grabbed and I don't think it was like on purpose. I think people were just like doing their stroke and it happened to hit my wrist. But I, there was one, I actually thought my, my watch was gonna, gonna
have an untimely death. Yeah, I know Mirror Lake has a collection of watches on the bottom.
Troy Theodosiou (21:47)
man.
I bet, I bet.
know, Jill I think what's important for people to understand and not neglect is the fact that as a coach, you can speak into this with regards to the key training phases required for successfully and preparing properly for an endurance event. And I think, I mean, you can elaborate on this, but base building, your specific endurance, and then your peak and your taper.
Jill Bartholomew (22:08)
Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (22:20)
And that doesn't, know, your nutrition, your hydration, your fueling plan, that's all over and above.
Jill Bartholomew (22:22)
Yeah.
That's why having like realistic, you know, expectations and a good timeline. Yeah, I've recently been talking to a few athletes, some of who have signed up with me, which thank you for listening. Yeah, who they're talking about races that are nine to 12 months away. And some are even like, well, you know,
I kind of want to do this race in 2027. And I'm like, that's fantastic, because it does give us time to go through all three phases and have a taper. And that base building, that foundational phase is so important, because what do you do? You're working on the basics. You're getting the reps in. Failure is OK.
Troy Theodosiou (23:08)
100%.
Jill Bartholomew (23:12)
It's not the hardest thing in the world, but a lot of it is aerobic and building your aerobic capacity in the gym, building the strength so that you can do the other phases. As we get into peak phase, that's long and hard. But if you don't make your way through that foundational phase, that base building,
Long and hard is going to feel a lot longer and a lot harder and you might not be able to do it or you might be unhappy with the results.
Troy Theodosiou (23:41)
And know, Jill, one of the things that really come to the forefront of my mind as we have this, as we unpack this with regards to preparing for endurance events, I think the one thing that people neglect is mental preparation. Now for somebody who's competed on different continents at the highest level, it doesn't matter whether you're preparing for your first
Jill Bartholomew (23:58)
and
Troy Theodosiou (24:07)
local distance olympic or whether you're preparing for the world championships in Kona, let's take a minute to highlight and unpack the importance of mental preparation that's required.
Jill Bartholomew (24:13)
Mm-mm.
So you ever notice that, so you and I have both done a lot of races in our lifetime in different sports. You ever notice that like, let's take running for a second, 5k for, you know, experienced athletes who are doing longer distances, a 5k is like not a big deal. We probably do many 5ks a week in our training.
You ever notice in a race, you 3.1 miles, five kilometers, around mile marker two, you start thinking in your head, are we done yet? Now, this is a person who does 140 miles and three and a half kilometers into a into a five kilometer race. They're like, are we there yet? Are we done? You ever notice that?
Troy Theodosiou (25:02)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (25:16)
Yeah. And then in a 10K, it's like the same thing, right? 6.2 miles. At like mile four, you're like, are we there yet? I'm done. Can we be done? Are we there yet? And it's the same thing in a half and a full. And like pick your sport. Like, yeah, it is in a endurance swim. Same thing. 1.2 miles at like 900 yards or at like 900 meters, you're like.
Troy Theodosiou (25:28)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (25:47)
Are we done? Are we there yet? 0.9 miles. Are we there yet? So I think it is the mental thing. But also, when you're in that racehead space, you're narrowly focused on the finish line. And for me, at least, I get 80 % of the way there. And then I'm like, that last 20 % is mentally hard.
Troy Theodosiou (26:10)
Yeah, and that's where the race is won or lost. And that's why your training is so important because you mentally, it's not just physical output. It's not just about putting in the miles. And that's what people need to remember is like, hey, this is not just a physiological endeavor. Like the mental preparation is as if not more important than what you're doing.
Jill Bartholomew (26:12)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, this is.
Troy Theodosiou (26:36)
from a physiological standpoint.
Jill Bartholomew (26:38)
Yeah, as a coach, this is my only kind of.
like for marathon training, this is my only hesitation with not having athletes do the full distance before the race is like, you know, from a physiological perspective, you know, there's been a lot of studies on it. The vast majority of plans for a marathon have you running between 18 and 22 miles max.
Right, very, very few of them have you actually doing the full 26.2 prior to race day. So like from a physical perspective, there's limited additional gains in that extra mileage. Unless you're an elite athlete, right, then absolutely there is. But for an amateur, for an age grouper,
who's not podiuming and whose goal is to finish and finish strong. Like the extra 5K you're not getting, or the extra 10K, you're not getting a ton of extra benefit. But that mental component, there is nothing like, yeah, yeah, it's like, so mile 18 is when most people hit the wall. Maybe it's, yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (27:49)
feeling the feels.
Yeah, your body will give up way before your mind.
Jill Bartholomew (28:01)
Yeah, maybe for you it's mile 16. Maybe it's mile 22. But then you've got those dark miles of like, OK, so you've hit the wall. You've diagnosed that the reason why you're bonking is you don't have enough carbs, or you are dehydrated, or maybe you're cramping a little bit. Usually within two miles, you've kind of salt it out and rebounded, right?
Troy Theodosiou (28:08)
Hmm.
Jill Bartholomew (28:26)
assuming you didn't get so down that it's like unrecoverable. most people aren't gonna let it go that far before they notice that, I gotta do something different. But then you've got like that 22 to 25. And those can be like the most exhilarating miles, because you're like, yeah, I'm almost there. And they can also be like the darkest miles of like, my God, is it ever.
going to end.
Troy Theodosiou (28:54)
And I think more often than not, it's the latter. It's what you've just mentioned. And I think that is where your ability to overcome those obstacles, those mental blocks, those mental challenges, because it's still expending energy.
Jill Bartholomew (28:58)
Yeah.
Yeah, Lake Placid for me on the bike, I was way under. My nutrition was off on the bike and it caught up to me right around the two hour mark, which was, I was going at a good clip the first two hours. It was right around mile 45. I can see it in my metrics when things started to go.
And like, there was a dramatic change. I was putting out like 50 % of the power that I normally would be putting out. And once I recovered from it, I never made it back to 100 % of what I should have been, but I made it to like 70, right? And, you know, it affected me on the run, same thing. The run, I made it to like 70 % of what I should have been doing or would have expected to. So there is an effect.
But the dark hours from 45 to 85 or 80 or whenever it was, I hit that aid station that I just started gobbling down the Martin bars was like, you're in your head and you're like, why do I hurt so bad? Why does this feel so hard? This shouldn't feel this hard. I've done a number of these, but.
You know, you're on the bike and you can say like, I've done centuries before and they didn't feel this bad. I've done more elevation before and it didn't feel this bad. It's like, if, if that's the first time you've done a century in a race, then you won't have that experience. And you're like, this is normal. But if you've done a few of them, you have, you did a few centuries in training. If you did erase them, then like, in addition to that seat time, you also know how your body feels.
It's like 80 miles in for most people. Your body's not gonna feel great. But.
Troy Theodosiou (30:57)
Jill, your ability
to wrestle with those emotions, it's raw. In the heat of the moment, you've got to unpack and process because you still know, and you of all people, having just lived this, you know, hey, I'm better than this. I shouldn't be feeling this way. You're in a hole and only you can get you out.
Jill Bartholomew (31:04)
or at some.
Yeah.
See you.
Yeah. And like that's where training comes in, It's like, you know, first identify the ability to identify like, okay, well, why do I feel this way? This isn't normal, right? Cause first time you do it, you don't know what's normal, right? The second time you do it, you at least have another data point to compare to. and then the third time, by the time you've done it three times, you're like, all right, this isn't normal. Right. Like in my lead up to Lake Placid it this year.
I think I've done nine centuries so far this year. You know, so like I have a pretty good idea of how my body should feel at mile 80, right? And there's people listening who are like, Peshaw I've done 40. Like, okay. That I, I didn't this year. but you know, it's like the more experience you get, the more data points you have to compare to, and the more you can kind of self address like what's going on.
So in that preparation, okay, so you got the training, we've beat that to death. You gotta train, train smart, give yourself enough time to prepare for the race that you wanna do and the more prepared you are, the better the outcome. yeah, is that real as it goes. So this is one that always fascinates me, the race. How early do you get to the race?
Troy Theodosiou (32:32)
and set realistic goals.
Jill Bartholomew (32:42)
Let's say you're doing a standalone marathon. When would you show up? Assuming it's not like within driving distance.
Troy Theodosiou (32:50)
that has a lot to do with your personality. If you're quite an anxious person, the last thing you want to do is arrive too late because that does you no good. I think that's very dependent on your personality, how you cope with stressful situations because that can also evoke an unfavorable result if you're somebody who doesn't cope well under pressure.
Jill Bartholomew (32:53)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Troy Theodosiou (33:17)
or has high anxiety, you wanna arrive there early. I'm the type of guy that likes to be very relaxed, very chilled. I don't wanna be flustered. That does mean no good. I like to be extremely prepared. I like to be very relaxed, very dialed in, very in tune. And I think I would not thrive in an environment where...
Jill Bartholomew (33:41)
So could I,
listening to you, sounds, I think we think a lot alike on this one. It's like control what you can control. And you can control your stress level, your anxiety level to a point, right? Like there's always race, state, nerves, but yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (33:51)
100%.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but those are good. Those are good.
Jill Bartholomew (34:04)
versus feeling like, man, I just flew in and I'm still jet lagged. So for a full I am, so most are on Saturday or Sunday. Actually, I think they're all on Saturday or Sunday. When you show up? Thursday, Wednesday, Tuesday, Monday.
Troy Theodosiou (34:10)
No.
No,
ideally you wanna be there by midweek latest. You wanna get acclimated, you wanna be relaxed, you wanna be hyper familiar with your surroundings. And Joe, we've spoken about this before. When you don't allow for the uncontrollables, delays with your bike, damages to your luggage or kit not arriving, how often? I mean, we've seen pro athletes, the day before event,
Jill Bartholomew (34:24)
Mm-hmm.
I am.
Troy Theodosiou (34:46)
They don't have a race suit. And that's something that might not be make or break.
Jill Bartholomew (34:49)
We saw
last year, the day before, two days before the event, you know, she put on her wetsuit bent over and it just like split right down the rear end. It's like, you know, can you imagine the panic that she had of this? you know,
Troy Theodosiou (34:59)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (35:08)
a wetsuit that she's trained in. She's very familiar with. It fits her like a glove. And now it's no good. Antimers.
Troy Theodosiou (35:18)
Same applies to somebody who's,
you know, like with shoes, your marathon shoes. Joe, you used to training in a, let's just say you're in a strange ⁓ spot.
Jill Bartholomew (35:26)
You hear about the story
where my carbon plated marathon shoes, this is at think Dopey maybe earlier this year. My carbon plated marathon shoes I used in the 5k. The plate in one of them broken half. Yeah, yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (35:42)
No
radio.
Jill Bartholomew (35:43)
No, not ideal at all. Luckily, I had brought a second set. yeah, because that event, Dopey, it's a 5k, a 10k, a half, and a full on subsequent days. So it's 48.6 miles over four days. And so it in itself isn't an ultra, but the combined distance is. It's over 50k.
You know, doing events like that that are multi-day is a different skill in itself because you have to learn how to recover and like train yourself to recover really fast from one event so you can show up the next day. Especially if you're doing it at race pace, right? Like you can survive a 5K and then do a 10K, right? But can you race a 5K and then race a 10K? Yeah, so that was fantastic. But same thing, like, you know.
I think I posted something on social media that was like, can confirm that racing in carbon fiber plates and plated shoes that have broken plates is like racing in really squishy socks. There's no support whatsoever.
Troy Theodosiou (36:41)
Hmm.
Well, think about this, Joe, when you traveled to France last year, think about the timeframe, think about the preparedness in terms of like first time racing in France. You've got to account for language barriers over and above just being in a new place and then setting yourself up to be successful and also making allowances for the things that are outside of your control.
Jill Bartholomew (36:46)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, and yeah, you've got time zone. And when you travel, I was reading about this recently, it's really super common for everyone, not just athletes, to have gut issues for the first 48 to 72 hours. Plus, if you're staying in an unfamiliar place,
you know, you can add more. And, you know, when you travel, the food is generally not as healthy that you're eating as what you would otherwise eat at home. Right. and like most, athletes tend to pay more attention to what they put in their bodies. they may not have a better diet, but they're at least more aware of what they're eating, than like someone who's not into sporting at all.
So you've got that going for you, plus the unfamiliar surroundings and you know, da da da da. So when I went to France, we got there, we left Philadelphia, I think it was on Sunday and I think we landed on like Monday in the afternoon at some point. And you know, I actually had felt like we should have gone a day earlier. Yeah. And I think a lot of people showed up on Tuesday.
Troy Theodosiou (38:13)
really?
Jill Bartholomew (38:18)
And I'm used to traveling to Europe, you know, with, you know, jobs I've had over the last 25 years, you know, I spent a lot of time in Europe and Asia, but still, you know, your body needs to adjust. But yeah, I wish we had gone out a day before it, cause we would have done, we would have been able to spend like a, like some actual time sightseeing where like being there on Monday afternoon, bike was assembled. did my first shakeout ride Monday and then, you know,
Troy Theodosiou (38:29)
Great dance.
Jill Bartholomew (38:47)
Then it was into like ShakeOut training, you know, events and like World Championship has a lot of events. Like you could be like probably 18 hours a day. You could be going to something.
Troy Theodosiou (39:01)
was going to say, this obviously changes the game for you with regards to Kona and Marbella. Because of this experience...
Jill Bartholomew (39:07)
Yeah. Well, yeah, actually
in Kona, I'm going out there the last week in September. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (39:14)
So there's a learning, why? Because there's experience. This is exactly
what we're referencing. It's like, you know, if you prepare and you allow enough time and you set realistic goals, there's less likelihood that things don't go according to plan.
Jill Bartholomew (39:31)
But yeah, that
that's experience. And, know, so my experience alone, I was planning on going out. I think the race is on what the 11th. So we were planning to go out the Saturday before the race. So it would have had us out there like eight days, you know, and then come back on like the, the Tuesday after the race, just like the timing of flights, you know, back, you're all in the morning and you know, you've got.
the post-race banquets and stuff. So like you need to add like an extra day.
Troy Theodosiou (40:02)
There's more bicycles than human beings. The airport is, it's a sight to behold. To see that number of bikes leaving Hawaii is just, it's unbelievable. Good grief.
Jill Bartholomew (40:05)
Yeah!
That is
one of the times where I'm very, I'm very much in the get to the airport early because I want to do everything I can to make sure that not just myself, but my bags and my bike are on the same plane I'm on. But I'm also grateful for the status I have on the airlines, which, you know, help guarantee that too.
Troy Theodosiou (40:19)
Yes.
I
was gonna say there is a strong likelihood that that is not the case for everybody because the plane can only hold so many bikes because of the size. So unfortunately, whether you like it or not, there will be some people that travel without their bikes.
Jill Bartholomew (40:43)
Yeah.
There will be. And I think if you're checking it with an airline, like knock on wood, you're going to get it eventually. might be on that flight the next day. I mean, last year when Tri-Bike Transport went out after, was it after Kona or Cozumel? It was one of the fall races. Yeah, that was quite a.
Troy Theodosiou (41:09)
Yeah, it was before.
Jill Bartholomew (41:13)
Gong show.
Troy Theodosiou (41:14)
Air tags,
folks. You have been warned.
Jill Bartholomew (41:17)
I have three air tags in my bike box and I'm not going to disclose where they are. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you know, it's like, you know, find my will show up and I find, you know, find my is great, except that needs to have someone, you know, that it pings off of. anyways, showing up, you know, showing up early, I think we're both saying the same thing. It's like, find what you're comfortable with, but.
Troy Theodosiou (41:19)
There you go.
That's fine. I am the same way.
Exactly.
Jill Bartholomew (41:44)
don't be like last minute. I saw at Lake Placid something I hadn't seen before at other races, or at least not to the same degree. The village on the first day of packet pickup was actually quiet. Usually that first day is hopping.
Troy Theodosiou (42:05)
the buzz.
Jill Bartholomew (42:09)
You know, it was Friday. That was a buzz. Even Saturday morning, people were showing up and picking it like, yeah, Lake Placid had like very limited hours on Saturday, the day before the race to pick up. I think it was only open for like two or three hours because you had to have your bike racked by what, three or four PM. And I'm like, I couldn't imagine showing up to a full Ironman.
Troy Theodosiou (42:16)
people pushing it.
Mm-hmm.
Jill Bartholomew (42:34)
the morning before the, the morning of the day before the race.
Troy Theodosiou (42:38)
You'll be surprised
how many people show up and their bike hasn't been serviced in several months. I could share a few stories, but...
Jill Bartholomew (42:41)
I well, then. Well,
I bet. Well, that is the thing was I'm like, it gives you no time to do anything like no acclamation. And if there's an equipment problem, you're you're you're in a really bad spot. Like I had a friend who's had a derailleur hanger that broke. Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (42:56)
my gosh.
Yeah, more often than not.
Jill Bartholomew (43:07)
And you know, like, OK, so if you're there three days before, you can probably get a derailleur hanger.
Troy Theodosiou (43:13)
depending on how old your bike is. If it's ancient, you're gonna struggle.
Jill Bartholomew (43:14)
Well, yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, for most people, you should be able to get a dry trailer hanger in two or three days. Right. And Lake Placid, most of the places that these races are in have a couple of like really solid bike shops. Yeah. I carry a spare hanger with me for that reason. And actually when I travel, when my tri bike goes in the bike box,
Troy Theodosiou (43:25)
as fair.
for sure.
Me too. Yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (43:41)
the rear derailleur goes in my carry-on. Yeah, my chain comes off, and I bring an extra of quick links, the chain tool, the quick link tool. And I've seen people find ways to jury rig a quick tool out of an Allen key, but you know.
Troy Theodosiou (43:45)
Yeah, well played. Smart.
Jill Bartholomew (44:00)
Just bring the tool. It costs like $4.
Troy Theodosiou (44:03)
Well here's the problem with the bent hanger
is if there isn't time to get a new one and it has to be straightened, there is a possibility that it snaps.
Jill Bartholomew (44:07)
Mm-hmm.
So we recently, so John and I, I had posted something on Instagram a month ago that something big is happening for B-Fear's multisport. Maybe now's a good time talk about that. So B-Fear's multisport has always had a multi-prong approach over the next three years. So.
Phase one was like creating the coaching business. And part of that was this podcast. We're like, hey, you know, this could be, this could be fun. And it is. And I'm so excited that like, you know, so far, like 60,000 people have decided that they like what we have to say. so phase two is, we're opening a physical brick and mortar location and
As part of that, we're going to be hopefully selling but more to the point servicing bikes. And the business model is that it's more like triathlete focused and it will expand. So as we get towards the fall, I'm expecting to start to offer virtual cycling classes.
So trying to create a more social space for triathletes and cyclists over the winter where most of us stopped training. And, you know, so we recently have been taking, you know, class the park tool classes, which have been interesting because like, yeah, obviously we've been around bikes a long time. I I've been on a bike competitively on and off since like 1997. So like.
Yeah, OK. So they ended up, the shop that was doing the classes with us said, OK, what don't you know? And they went through, so we went through the, they have this big manual. And so we went through that and we're like, this, this, this, and this. So we spent, we went down to this shop in Maryland.
Troy Theodosiou (45:56)
I there you go.
Jill Bartholomew (46:11)
So big shout out to Scott who was working with us at, was it, I'm going to mispronounce it. It's in Catoctin, Maryland. And, you know, so we're talking, talking through it. we, so, you know, the moral of story is we did this big long class. And one of the things that we were talking about was specifically derailer hangers. So he was telling us in his experience, you know, cause he was kind of similar situation where like he left a corporate job.
Troy Theodosiou (46:32)
Nice.
Jill Bartholomew (46:40)
and opened this bike shop. It's like, hey, you get tired of corporate, what do you do? You open a bike shop. And he was saying, yeah, people will come in the shop with a bent hanger. They were actually out riding, and they couldn't shift, and they rode to the shop. And he was like, more often than not, when they tried to bend it back, pops. I'm like, yeah, yeah. Because I've had that on my own bike.
Like I ride trucks mostly. And the derailleur hangers are probably about a quarter inch these days, kind of like a quarter inch thick, whether it's a SRAM or Shimano, they're really similar. Kind of like a quarter inch thick piece of pop metal. And they're made to break. That's their job, right? They're made to break.
Troy Theodosiou (47:25)
Moral of the story, Joe?
Jill Bartholomew (47:28)
I've had my own hanger, like you look at it and it's bent a little bit and shoot, there's a hairline crack in it. But you gotta be always looking at your equipment too. So.
Troy Theodosiou (47:36)
Folks.
Yeah, servicing,
carry or spare.
Jill Bartholomew (47:43)
Yeah, servicing carry a spare. And now it's nice because most of the brands are starting to standardize, at least within the brand. I have a Madone. I do most of my training on a Madone because it's more friendly for group riding. Most groups don't appreciate when people show up on tri bikes.
Troy Theodosiou (47:55)
Yeah.
No.
No.
Jill Bartholomew (48:09)
but yeah, and I race on a, on a speed concept. Well, they use the same derailleur hanger. So it's like, it's not, you know, so we've got a little stash of those, but yeah. Anyways. Yeah. So more of the story is my rear derailleur comes off whenever I travel and it goes in my bag, along with my, my chain, which is TSA allowed. I actually didn't think about that. I'm like, I'm like a chain could be a weapon.
Troy Theodosiou (48:15)
there you go.
What a good grief. I never thought of that.
Jill Bartholomew (48:35)
But TSM,
yeah, well, mean, come on. There was a while where you couldn't bring knitting needles.
Troy Theodosiou (48:41)
Yeah, well, when in doubt, phone Jill. When in doubt, phone Jill. She's got your back.
Jill Bartholomew (48:44)
Yeah. But yeah, yeah.
Well, and those, those TSA lists, like when they change all the time. So when you're traveling, like when you're packing up your bike, you know, check it because like things change. Like the chain is you can bring it on the plane today. You might not be able to, after someone from TSA listens to this podcast and says, it could be used as a, as a weapon. So Troy, I think we should talk a little bit about recovery.
Troy Theodosiou (48:53)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
you took the words out of my mouth, because here we are talking about you in Placid, and one of the things that we haven't discussed is the recovery.
Jill Bartholomew (49:15)
not
Let's set, before we talk about me, let's talk about you. You, before we started the show today, you were telling me about an Olympic you recently did and you did not do what we started the last 46 minutes of this podcast on. You didn't train for it. You, and I quote, had no business doing it, but you did it because someone that you met and cared about and was part of your why had recently passed away.
So it was, it was important for you to do that event, even though you were under trained for it. So like ignoring the lack of training. So you showed up, you did it. You had fun. saw the pictures. So don't even lie that you didn't have fun. tell me about how you felt afterwards.
Troy Theodosiou (49:51)
You
Yeah, there was definitely some aches and pains just with regards to the fact that when we control the controllables, the outcome is normally different. But I think just like...
Jill Bartholomew (50:10)
Hmm.
Troy Theodosiou (50:16)
The recovery is so important, right? Like even if your preparation isn't on point, and I think, you know, a lot of the time it isn't. But more importantly, when it isn't on point and it hasn't gone quite according to plan or you didn't put in the necessary time required, I think that's where recovery is super important. And the fact that I've...
I've trained this week and the fact that I've been active and I've been very diligent with regards to my nutrition and my hydration means that I'm in a really good spot. And I think so often if that is neglected, and we'll talk about the mental and the emotional sort of come down post-race, whether you call it the blues or whatever you refer to it as, it's real.
Jill Bartholomew (50:39)
Mm-hmm.
post-race blues are real.
Troy Theodosiou (50:59)
They are real. And folks, that is not symbolic of an Iron Man. That's across the board.
Jill Bartholomew (51:06)
No.
But kudos to Ironman for capitalizing on it. They're really good at that. Within moments of you crossing the finish line, you get the email of sign up for next year.
Troy Theodosiou (51:12)
Yeah, I just...
Yeah,
well, I mean, again, that's, you know, that's, that's the marketing piece of the puzzle. But, but the, the real, you know, the real life thing is like, you've, you've done something great, whether it's the first time or the hundredth time, the fact of the matter is like, this, this, this, this emotional switch, that you're not always prepared for, right? Because you've put in all this time, you've put in all this training, you've got the metal.
Jill Bartholomew (51:24)
Mm-hmm.
Troy Theodosiou (51:45)
the result without, know, it was either what you desired or it wasn't, but regardless, there's an emotional response and a psychological response that you have to be prepared for.
Jill Bartholomew (51:58)
Yeah, it's a lot like what a new mom experiences after the baby shows up, right? It's like the last nine months have been about planning for this baby or after a wedding or any other big event in your life. It's like you spent all this time and energy and emotional energy and investment in this thing, and now it's over.
Now say you're like, okay, well, what now?
Troy Theodosiou (52:23)
And Jill, to answer your question, like my biggest focus this week has been sleep quality. My sleep quality has been a massive focal point for me, because that obviously is huge when it comes to recovering. Refueling, my hydration and my electrolytes, and then my nutrition in terms of like, what am I consuming? Because it's easy to be dialed in, you know, leading up into race week and then...
Jill Bartholomew (52:29)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Troy Theodosiou (52:51)
race day happens and it's like, you know, like I'm relaxed, I'll eat whatever I want. And that's a huge mistake.
Jill Bartholomew (52:59)
So did you give yourself the cheat day?
Troy Theodosiou (53:01)
I mean post-race I I think the first thing I consumed was an Oreo McFlurry which went down super well it it went down super fast and I don't know if this is just a Troy thing or Jill if you can relate things that you have had prior to post-race always tastes so much better is that just a Troy thing or can you relate? yeah
Jill Bartholomew (53:07)
I bet that went down fast.
No, it's everyone.
My traditional post-endurance race meal is a slab of meat. Yeah, like when John and I first started dating and he first started like following me to races, you know, I think the first race, maybe the first race he traveled with me to was the San Francisco Marathon.
Troy Theodosiou (53:37)
Nice.
Jill Bartholomew (53:52)
And then Montreal was next. And after Montreal, he's like, so I'm gathering that shortly after the race, we go out and we have steak. I said, yes. Yes, we do. Every single time.
Troy Theodosiou (54:03)
Nice.
He knows the drill. There you go. And you know, Jill, something else, now that you asked me the question, something else that I've learned over time is...
Jill Bartholomew (54:06)
He knows the drill. He knows the drill. Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (54:17)
Nothing.
Allowing myself some time to recover and not being too eager to jump right back in and go full steam. I think a lot of the time, the more experienced you are, the more you seem to think that it's okay just to dive right back in. I think that's a mistake.
Jill Bartholomew (54:20)
No.
Yeah.
Yeah, I fall in that trap sometimes because like when you've done it for a while and done a lot of them, you know how to recover and your body recovers faster. And when your body recovers quickly and you start feeling good pretty quick, you're kind of still riding that like post-race high and you're feeling good and you're like, yeah, let's go do something hard. And it's too early.
Troy Theodosiou (54:37)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Let me add another one to our list, because here's where Jill and I are both guilty as charged. What about in our recovery process? Wait for it. Are you ready? Ignoring niggles and signs that you know are there, that you are just like, yeah, I know it's there, but I'm going to carry on anyway. Jill, let's be real for a second. More often than not. And I'm going to hand this one back to you.
Jill Bartholomew (55:18)
Yeah.
man. I was better this time. ⁓ My training plan, you know, kind of jumped right back into training and you know, just at a reduced kind of similar volume at a reduced intensity, which is really common, right? It's like you want to get back and moving and like your volume might not go down tremendously, but your intensity should go down.
Troy Theodosiou (55:29)
Okay.
Jill Bartholomew (55:52)
like a lot, and then it builds back up over a period of weeks, not days. And I, after Lake Plas, I was so beat up after that rate. I've never been so beat up and it wasn't the course. And you know, I've done that course before and it was the nutrition, right? Like my muscles were like, just, they were beat up.
And was the first time I've said to my coach, I said to my coach, I'm like, I'm ignoring the training plan for the next three days. And I didn't do anything. I mean, I did. I went out on like easy rides with my kids. I did not run. I went out for a swim, you know, I did an open water thing. But I did nothing on the plan. like.
Troy Theodosiou (56:22)
Well played. Good for you.
Yeah. Yeah.
And look at you
now as a result of those actions and you being intentional about the fact that, hey, I'm beat up. Like I still need to move, but I'm gonna take my foot off the gas. And being okay with that, Jill, the most valuable advice I got this week just yesterday was being more graceful with ourselves.
Jill Bartholomew (56:50)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, I get that advice.
Troy Theodosiou (57:07)
And
it's so hard, it's so easy to practice that. It's so easy to preach it, but to practice it, excuse me, is a whole different story. And here I am on a phone call and I'm like, you telling me what I tell everybody else. And then when it comes to myself, that air of grace, like, hey, take a step back.
Jill Bartholomew (57:28)
Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (57:32)
It's so much easier said than done.
Jill Bartholomew (57:34)
So it is, and I've been really bad at that. I continue to be bad at that. And I'll say this, over the last year, my social circle has expanded quite a bit. That's one of the things that I love about these types of sports, whether it's marathons or triathlons or something else is,
especially within the age group ranks of these sports that tend to be a little on the smaller side and more tightly knit is like people can be super supportive of each other. Even people that they compete directly with. Like some of the things I love about triathl... You even see it within the pro ranks. like, yeah. Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (58:20)
And that's our relationship. That's us. We live
in proof of that.
Jill Bartholomew (58:25)
Yes, I've had people this year be like, because I'll beat myself up over something. It's like, I know I'm capable of this, and I'm not performing at the level that I'm expecting of myself. And I've had a couple of people be like, just give yourself the grace to recover and acknowledge that you did something that most people will never do.
then you can beat yourself up later. like, you know, have the grace to like be happy. And it does make a difference, right? And hearing someone else tell you that. Meanwhile, as the coach, you know, I'm saying to my athletes all the time, I'm like, yeah, you missed the mark by a couple of minutes. You know, it's like, it's not the end of the world. There'll be next time, you know?
Troy Theodosiou (58:54)
Yeah.
And the other thing that I wanna highlight, Jill, and I think this will resonate so deeply with you as it has with me this week, is allowing ourselves the ability to celebrate the win. Because we so focused on raising the bar and what's next, that we forget about what has just been accomplished and achieved. Guilty as charged, I mention this because I'm being transparent and vulnerable.
Jill Bartholomew (59:25)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (59:36)
about some of these struggles because it's so easy for us to forget about like what we've just done, what we've just accomplished, doesn't matter how big or how small, the fact of the matter is those wins, those gains are there to be celebrated. And when you ignore them, it's counterproductive because you're so focused on what's next, you don't get to appreciate and live in the moment that you're in.
Jill Bartholomew (1:00:03)
Yeah, and you also have to be a little bit careful. We can beat ourselves up all we want. And to some degree, it's normal. It's healthy. There's nothing wrong with it to a point. But you also have to be aware of the people that you're doing it to. It's like, if Lake Placid. I was expecting to finish in 1130, 1145, and I was off by an hour. So.
complaining to someone who crossed the finish line, worked their ass off, and squeaked just under the clock would be really rude, right? Because it's like, what was me? But yeah, but no, like recovery. You've got the mental recovery, which I think is what we're both talking about. But then physically, listening to your body. But I'm curious.
Troy Theodosiou (1:00:42)
Yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (1:00:56)
I love expos at races. whether, well, I do. That's not new and it's not a secret. But like whether it's Ironman, Disney, know, New York Marathon, whatever. I love the expos talking to the most of the vendors. Like I am not a big like talk to salespeople person.
Troy Theodosiou (1:00:59)
You like shopping, you like buying things.
Jill Bartholomew (1:01:20)
But I like talking to the vendors themselves, right? But you could go broke at these places. And half of what's being sold is recovery stuff, whether it's ice baths or the squeezy pants or the retouching guns. Yeah, yeah. And it's like there's the big brands, then there's the brands that are trying to enter an already crowded market.
Troy Theodosiou (1:01:37)
Theraguns... I was gonna say...
Yep.
Jill Bartholomew (1:01:50)
And so on and so forth. And, you know, it's like, I'm so curious. You're like me. You probably have like 10 of everything that you don't need. But yeah, yeah. After a while you get better with it. But what's your, what is your go-to recovery process?
Troy Theodosiou (1:02:01)
I've got better.
I have a few. I have a few. And I think the older, the wiser we get, the more wisdom we exercise. And that's not all the time. But for the most part, it's just being.
Jill Bartholomew (1:02:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, we're capable of exercising better decisions. That doesn't mean we do exercise it.
Troy Theodosiou (1:02:27)
⁓ It's just, yeah, it's just about
being diligent and knowing what works for me in terms of like icing and if there's any areas that I struggle with that I'm aware of. I'm old school with regards to an ice belt and the power of that and how that really helps me out. And that's something that I'm getting better not at neglecting because it just...
Jill Bartholomew (1:02:34)
Mm.
Troy Theodosiou (1:02:54)
It sets me up to recover the way I should. And then again, like just being super diligent with my nutrition and my hydration, I think that plays a huge role. Being super intentional with quality products. think there's a lot of garbage, but there's also a lot of good stuff. And I think it's about finding what works for you. Trial and error just with regards to... ⁓
Jill Bartholomew (1:02:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Yeah, the
problem is like trial and error is expensive.
Troy Theodosiou (1:03:20)
It is, but again, there's wisdom and you have people at your disposal that can speak into what works for them. It's not a one size fits all, but I think being diligent with and being intentional, I think is is ultimately what helps me. And I found a lot of the stuff that's shiny and...
Jill Bartholomew (1:03:30)
Mm-hmm.
So.
Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (1:03:44)
There's a lot of gimmicks and I think we need to be careful of falling prey to that. But I think with regards to keep it simple, don't try too much. And again, just listen to your body and then go with what works.
Jill Bartholomew (1:03:47)
There is a lot of gimmicks.
So I
have four things. One is, I use it every day, is Yale standard foam roller. Like, if you don't have a foam roller, go out and get one. There's 20 bucks, 30 bucks.
Troy Theodosiou (1:04:10)
yeah. my gosh. Yeah.
Yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (1:04:19)
You know, probably you could probably find one for 10 bucks. And I there's, I know there's like the fancy ones that vibrate and whatever, but like, yeah, yeah. And, and I have one and I use it sometimes as nice, but the, Ye ol standard orange, mine's pink, but you know, foam roller is like, you know, on the IT band.
Troy Theodosiou (1:04:27)
⁓ yeah, I've seen those, the balls and all of those things. Yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (1:04:43)
You know, the hamstring, the quad, the calf, oh man. You know, nothing works out. You know, the muscle's faster than that. you know, PT told me once they're like, if it hurts, do it some more. They're like, if it hurts, it means that things aren't the way they should be and keep doing it. Because you know, over time you do it enough, it'll stop hurting.
Troy Theodosiou (1:04:58)
yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah,
like your glutes post race, doesn't matter whether you're running, riding, like your glutes are gonna be smashed. Like there's gonna be discomfort, but you have to address the source to feel better.
Jill Bartholomew (1:05:11)
Yeah. But... ⁓ Yeah. And
if your glutes don't hurt when you're done, then you're doing it wrong.
Troy Theodosiou (1:05:23)
That's
that's yeah
Jill Bartholomew (1:05:25)
But this company, I think they're California based, but I'm not positive, called Roll Recovery. I don't know if you heard about it. They make this thing that looks like a giant C clamp. And it's got these two rollers on it that you can swap out different types. there's two. One, you can adjust the tension of the rollers on it because there's some springs.
And the first time I looked at it, I was like, oh, that's stupid. Like, who's going to buy that? Now I own two. Now I own two. One, that I keep in my car at all times. It sits in the frunk of my car at all times. And it is my most used recovery tool. It's like having a foam roller that you don't need to lay down on the ground to use.
Troy Theodosiou (1:06:00)
You're on tune. There you go.
Okay.
Wow, okay.
Mine is my massage gun. My massage gun is like my Swiss Army knife.
Jill Bartholomew (1:06:21)
⁓
You see, I have a bunch of them. And my son uses it. He gets a lot of value. It doesn't do that much for me. just find it like, sometimes I use it. But it's like kind of annoying too.
Troy Theodosiou (1:06:37)
Well we've
all got our formulas right?
Jill Bartholomew (1:06:39)
But the thing that I thought was gimmicky, and it's like, love it. I think all the companies have one now. The heated heads for the percussion guns. my god. If you got a knot in your IT band, having the heat on it helps so much. And the squeezy pants.
Troy Theodosiou (1:06:49)
Yeah.
You see? Yeah. Well, there you go.
Well, my ice belt, I still, there's a freezing ice belt. Oh, man.
Jill Bartholomew (1:07:06)
never tried that.
Oh, I love, so I love the, the, mean, I have the Normatech ones, but you know, Therabody makes them a bunch of other companies make them go to Amazon. I'm sure you can find it. Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (1:07:20)
Go to your social account. You'll see Jill.
It's a race tradition.
Jill Bartholomew (1:07:27)
I, yeah. I especially like marathon, endurance race, multi-day events, the, the, the Normatex, the, the squeezy pants space legs. I've heard them call.
Troy Theodosiou (1:07:39)
You've got to have
a separate suitcase for all your bagger tricks.
Jill Bartholomew (1:07:42)
Actually, it's funny. So like, you know the 70.3 backpacks? So the 70.3 backpacks, I can fit the Norm Attack with the pump, my foam roller, my percussion gun, and the R8 from Roll Recovery.
Troy Theodosiou (1:07:46)
yeah.
This is what makes endurance sports expensive. Because it's not just the gear that you need to race. It's everything outside of that. Not so? I mean, if we're honest, for sure.
Jill Bartholomew (1:08:08)
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you got to invest in your recovery. Well,
yeah, there's one other piece of kit that I bring with me. but, but yeah, like that, that one bag fits everything and we don't, we don't, we don't bring it everywhere. It's like what we choose to bring, what I choose to bring, it depends on like what their race is. You know, like, you know, when I go down to Disney to do their, their like, you know, five, 10 half weekends, you know, don't bring the.
most of it's just a foam roller for that. a yoga strap.
Troy Theodosiou (1:08:46)
Easy to travel with, yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (1:08:46)
Oh my,
easy to travel. takes up no space and you can get such great stretches with that. Um, like I may suck at yoga, but like that yoga strap I can use like a champ. Yeah. But yeah, no, so Meg Dorito was on the podcast a couple months ago and she's, she, she's great. Cause on her socials, every once in a while you see a.
Troy Theodosiou (1:08:55)
It's a good shot.
Yeah, good shout.
Jill Bartholomew (1:09:15)
a post where she posts up like her schedule and, you know, with the caption of like, you know, invest as much in recovery as you did in training, recover as hard as you trained. And I think, I think it's, it's true.
Troy Theodosiou (1:09:24)
100%. 100%. So
true.
Jill Bartholomew (1:09:30)
All right, where do you want to go? I think you've...
Troy Theodosiou (1:09:31)
I wanna
think about, I wanna talk about something that's very close to both your and my heart with regards to the value of training with others. Obviously that's something that you pride yourself in, obviously as a coach, but also with regards to the fact that there's a bigger piece to the puzzle there with regards to your support crew. And Joel, something that's like very close to my heart is that
Jill Bartholomew (1:09:41)
detail.
Mm-hmm.
Troy Theodosiou (1:09:55)
There's this misconception that triathlon is an individual sport. I beg to differ.
Jill Bartholomew (1:10:01)
I mean, the rules do enforce that.
Troy Theodosiou (1:10:03)
Yes, but it's no different to a race car. Every race car has a crew.
Jill Bartholomew (1:10:09)
Absolutely.
Troy Theodosiou (1:10:09)
And triathlon is no different. You show up with John, your incredible Sherpa, your family, your coach, your friends, the community you train with.
Jill Bartholomew (1:10:12)
Mm-hmm.
All right,
let's be clear. My family is unwilling participants.
Troy Theodosiou (1:10:23)
Well, I've got some photographs from Lake Placid that I took and I could say otherwise because them being there and you having them there, willing or not, the impact that has on you and your race is huge. I'm no different. To have my son running alongside the bank when dad's swimming.
Jill Bartholomew (1:10:24)
you
Okay.
it's huge. It's huge.
yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (1:10:49)
I mean, I feel like I've got a jet pack strapped to my back. They are just, that medal is way bigger deal for him than it is for me. And that is where I say like community. And I think it's safe to say that there's a lot of folks who have become a little disconnected with regards to the value of community and the importance.
Jill Bartholomew (1:11:00)
Yeah.
Yes.
Troy Theodosiou (1:11:13)
And I think it's something that needs to be reevaluated. The importance thereof, just in terms of the sport, it's super, super, super, super important.
Jill Bartholomew (1:11:23)
It is. And like when we talk about training with others, so I'm a master swim coach. So, you know, I coach with a local, you know, outfit, French Creek racing, you know, with their, master's crew a couple of times a week. And, you know, if you think, you know, it's, is an individual sport on the day of the competition, but.
Motivationally, training with other people is so great from a motivation perspective. it's like, showing up is the hardest part. But then once you show up, it's so easy. If you're doing it alone, you got your workout. It's so easy to just put in the bare minimum effort and call it a day.
Troy Theodosiou (1:12:05)
Well, Jill, you've really touched on something, because there's a motivational piece, but more than that, there's a word that people struggle with, and that's called accountability. Accountability is huge. It's easy to let yourself down. But when I know, like I committed to writing with Jill, and Jill's now waiting, she's waiting for me.
Jill Bartholomew (1:12:17)
Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (1:12:29)
She's relying on me to be there. Especially when it comes to, like let's just say it's an open water swim. And Jill has now banked on me showing up. There's a huge integrity part at play. But if Jill has banked on me spending time, I'm an experienced swimmer and Jill needs me by her side to help her settle her nerves, to get familiar, and she's relying on me showing up and I don't show up.
Jill Bartholomew (1:12:29)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (1:12:55)
Not only does that impact me, but that's a disservice and it directly impacts her. So accountability, training with others and being in a group environment, accountability is huge.
Jill Bartholomew (1:13:05)
Yeah. we talk about online a lot about accountability partners, but when you're, when you are a member of a group, it's real. And we also push each other. so this morning, you know, I was coaching at the upper Marion pool, which is a 50 meter. So it's long course. And yeah, I put this training plan together last night.
from scratch, which I don't do a lot of. Usually I'm like adapting other things and, you know, US Master Swim is great for, you know, giving like baseline. And this one, I'm like, I had a specific objective I was trying to accomplish and I couldn't find anything that fit the bill. you know, I had to put something together from scratch. And...
It was interesting to watch. there's three lanes. Normally there's six in 25 yard or 25 meter that I deal with. in this one, there's three. It's a longer, it's a weekday, not as many people show up. And so you end up having skills that normally aren't grouped together, grouped together. So there's a wider range of people in each lane.
Troy Theodosiou (1:14:09)
Mm.
Jill Bartholomew (1:14:11)
For the fastest lane, I had originally scoped it out for like 4,700 meters and ended up peeling it back to 4,200 because you never really know who's going to show up. And people don't feel that great about themselves when time's up and they haven't finished the plan. Right? Well, the paces I had put in there were a bit vague.
Intentionally, I'm like, do 200, 175 as easy, 25 sprint. And I said to the guys, I'm like, zone two, the first 175, and then zone six, five, six, the last 25. Yeah, I was trying to get like that energy activation going on on tired body. And they, um.
When these guys started competing with each other. Yeah. Yeah. So that one, those 175s that I would have expected from that crew to be done at like 150 to two minute pace were suddenly being done at like 130, 125. And then, you know, that sprint though, like where'd you go from there? How do you sprint?
Troy Theodosiou (1:15:13)
yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (1:15:32)
Right, so okay, so ignore the fact that they didn't get the objective of the workout quite to heart. They were all pushing each other. And like the slowest guy in the lane was now doing what the fastest guy in the lane would normally have.
Troy Theodosiou (1:15:46)
There you go.
Jill Bartholomew (1:15:48)
And so it pulls this all out.
Troy Theodosiou (1:15:49)
That 100 % and that's, it's like this, your tribe, you know how people say, find your tribe, find your people, because let's face it, life happens, right? Like we are, we are twists and turns and eventualities and things that happen. And that is where your ability to seek emotional support tap into,
Jill Bartholomew (1:15:56)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (1:16:17)
you know, some mental assistance if you've hit a low or you're dealing with some trauma in your life or something. You being able to just show up and rely on the group at large just to carry you. What an incredible spot to be in where you can just, you can show up even if the tank is empty and you can be reliant on the community to help fill that tank, to build you back up, to get you back on your feet. And that is why.
I take it so seriously and that is why it's such a big deal to me.
Jill Bartholomew (1:16:49)
Yeah, there's a lot of cycling groups around, some more formal than others. I'm in a number of these. There's one that is really ad hoc that I love. They ride at a pretty reasonable pace for a group that's generally not training for a race. And...
You know, still within the group, like various skill levels, but I love the text that come, you know, usually around like nine o'clock at night, like who's riding tomorrow? And then the next text is, what are you thinking? How many hours, how many miles, how many, what? Yeah. Yeah.
Troy Theodosiou (1:17:27)
And that's where they deciding, do I show up? Yeah.
Jill's doing this ride. Everybody's like, catch you next week.
Jill Bartholomew (1:17:38)
Well, it's funny. The ones that I organize that are like, yeah, cause I, you know, when I have like long rides, I'll invite others, you know, like, like I'll put the invite out there, but I'll be specific too. like, Hey, I have 80 miles, four hours, whatever. And I'm trying to achieve this pace or this like.
I know what my power output should be, but I try to translate it more into like, know, per kilogram, which everyone should be able to relate to. And everyone's like, yeah, yeah, I'll do it. And then the morning of we'll get like me and one other. yeah, it's like people slowly are like, wait, you want to start at what time on a Saturday? No.
Troy Theodosiou (1:18:22)
Yeah, it's like, what happened to you? my gosh, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (1:18:32)
And, you know, or like, I don't really want to do 6,000 feet of elevation or whatever.
Troy Theodosiou (1:18:37)
You know what the one thing I want to say, Jill, especially when it comes to this topic, because this is applicable and very relevant, not only to training, but very much so relevant on race day. And I think you, you of all people understand why I say this. But when you going through a difficult spot or you struggling and you show up, whether it's just your presence, but you, you, even if your tank is feeling empty, you encourage somebody else.
Jill Bartholomew (1:18:47)
Mm.
Troy Theodosiou (1:19:03)
and you love on somebody else, the impact that that has can literally be life-changing.
Jill Bartholomew (1:19:06)
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely. mean, you've become part of my support crew over the last year or so. And there's a few others that, but you know, this time last year I had, you know, some life events. I was pretty low and you know, it's you. It's the crew that I ride with three, four times a week, you know, family that, that, that got me through and
You know, I think having that support crew is amazing. You know, whether it's, you know, work, family, training, whatever, like having people that you can just rely on to not do anything other than tell you that life goes on.
Troy Theodosiou (1:19:55)
Yeah,
you know, the crazy thing is what happens is when you're well in this success, it's easy for people to all of a sudden be in your corner. But when the chips are down and things aren't going according to plan or not going swimmingly, let's just say, then you're able to realize who's really in your corner.
Jill Bartholomew (1:20:12)
Yeah, yeah.
But that's what I love about this community is like, when you start training seriously, you start making friends that are also doing the same kinds of things. And I've been involved with sports where everyone is so cutthroat that no one is, you know, helping each other.
And these sports, running included, which is a bigger sport, but it's like, is it really? More people do it, but the communities are pretty good. They help each other out.
Troy Theodosiou (1:20:56)
I think that's my biggest encouragement to everybody is like, less self, more of helping others, and you will reap the reward. When you become less focused on self, some of my fondest memories and achievements that I've been a part of, not receiving, have been so gratifying and so fulfilling. Being there for others, good and good.
Jill Bartholomew (1:21:02)
Hmm.
Troy Theodosiou (1:21:19)
you know, seeing success and getting the desired results, but more importantly, being there.
when that result is not achieved or things don't go according to plan.
Jill Bartholomew (1:21:28)
Yeah.
I was going to say in your former role, um, you probably saw a lot of people who had the best of intentions, but for whatever reason, didn't quite achieve what they were trying to do. And that, that can be like, you've put all that. mean, you know, we, started this, you know, episode talking about how, like have the right goals and have the right training plan and give yourself enough time. Um, but if you do all that.
Troy Theodosiou (1:21:41)
Yeah, I think.
Jill Bartholomew (1:21:57)
success is not guaranteed. Your probability of success is improved, but you can still be on. mean, like my experience, like yeah, I still crossed the finish line. You had a, had a good time finished in the top 20 % of my age group, but you know, it wasn't my goal. And I was pretty upset about that, but like, imagine if like that bonk had prevented me from crossing the finish line.
Troy Theodosiou (1:22:24)
yeah.
Jill Bartholomew (1:22:25)
Like that would have been devastating. And with all the training that goes into it, not to mention the expense, right? The time away from family, the, it's not just race registrations, but hotels and time away from work and travel expense. know, let's, let's face it when you're traveling to places, to tourist destinations, the food's not cheap either. But you know, the, at, that moment, the only thing that matters is.
Troy Theodosiou (1:22:46)
No.
Jill Bartholomew (1:22:52)
you put all that expense and energy and effort into it and you didn't get it done. And I know people that, I know a lot of people that have had that happen and it's devastating and it needs to be mourned, but it can take a long time to get over.
Troy Theodosiou (1:23:06)
and that's the importance of having people in your corner where you're in a spot to offer some words of encouragement, to just give a hug. It goes a long way. And again, in my former role, I've seen very successful businessmen and women at the top of their game. And trust me.
Jill Bartholomew (1:23:15)
Yeah. ⁓
Troy Theodosiou (1:23:25)
made of flesh and bones and even those who are already good still hurt deeply. And even those who are super successful also struggle with headspace and emotion and it's not foreign. And at the end of the day, if you can be there, even if it's just presence or even if it's just tough spot on the run and they happen to look up and you say something and it's like, I needed that.
Jill Bartholomew (1:23:43)
Mm-hmm.
So it strikes me that I think this episode has unintentionally become about community. Because everything we've talked about centers on the importance of being involved in the community of your chosen sport, whatever it is, and the importance of having the right support crew around you, your family, spouse, friends, social groups.
Troy Theodosiou (1:24:14)
and more so Joel, about making an impact and making your presence felt. It's huge.
Jill Bartholomew (1:24:20)
Yeah.
it's been a great conversation. Troy, I miss having you on the show. Hopefully we get you on more than once every 90 days.
Troy Theodosiou (1:24:28)
for sure.
Jill Bartholomew (1:24:32)
And for our listeners, I hope this was useful. I hope this was inspiring. And more importantly, I hope it inspired you to think about how you're approaching things and maybe find one thing to do differently.
And that said, thank you very much for listening. As always, if you haven't already, please subscribe to our podcast and stay tuned for next week of the Be Fierce and Tri podcast. All right, take care, everyone.